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returntothepit >> discuss >> post-black metal by tomx nli on Oct 28,2009 1:05am
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toggletoggle post by tomx nli at Oct 28,2009 1:05am
the fact that "post" is slapped onto anything remotely experimental nowadays makes my testicles curl. but besides the point, the stuff that this refers to is pretty excellent.

im talkin bout shit like amesoeurs, krallice, wolves in the throne room, liturgy, saros, altar of plagues. anyone else into it or have suggestions?



toggletoggle post by goatcatalyst   at Oct 28,2009 1:51am
Krallice fucking kills and I dig Altar of Plagues but Liturgy just sucks. Even gave it a second chance but its suck papers have been stamped and notarized. That Sixx record that all the NWN sycophants are tugging their pricks over is pretty cool, too. Basically the dudes from Von playing Christian Death and Samhain influenced death rock. Probably the only legit / "troo" post-black metal. Maybe check out Urfaust, Lifelover, Joyless and Circle of Ourboros, too



toggletoggle post by BobNOMAAMRooney nli at Oct 28,2009 1:55am
Lantlos



toggletoggle post by goatcatalyst   at Oct 28,2009 1:59am
I looked quick and thought that said "Latinos" and I was all "Satanic Hispanics are fuckin legit, dude"



toggletoggle post by quintessence  at Oct 28,2009 2:12am edited Oct 28,2009 2:12am
A lot of these band are alright, but I cannot stand the vocals which usually just sound like a emo guy in flannel hipster clothing shouting. Krallice and Altar of Plagues comes to mind



toggletoggle post by sli sli sli at Oct 28,2009 5:07am
i feel like black metal is (or should be)by nature an experimental genre, so yea total cringefest attaching prefixes to this shit, but whatever.
check out benighted leams (ferly centsms and later), v.e.g.a., azrael, virus (ved buens ende was pretty avante garde too), DEFINITELY URFAUST, shit even mayhems ordo ad chao and dodheimsgard supervillian outcast could be considered akin to this style...



toggletoggle post by aril at Oct 28,2009 7:47am
Avantgarde black metal of the 90s > all that hipster shit



toggletoggle post by MikeOfDecrepitude at Oct 28,2009 8:11am edited Oct 28,2009 8:12am
Yeah, none of the aforementioned "post black metal" can come close to Ved Buens Ende. I had heard good things about Altar of Plagues, so I downloaded the album, and ended up deleting it an hour later. Musically, Krallice has their moments but they're fleeting. I find it difficult to take that band seriously.

I'd even listen to Solefald over those bands.



toggletoggle post by aril at Oct 28,2009 8:14am
I had the honour of playing with krallice (thanks Ryan) but they just ain't my cup o tea. I just hope the majority of usbm doesn't swing in that direction



toggletoggle post by MikeOfDecrepitude at Oct 28,2009 8:18am
And Lifelover is pretty cool, pretty weird.



toggletoggle post by Conservationist  at Oct 28,2009 9:04am
It all sucks. It's an excuse to make black metal into indie. Krallice is fucking tedious although nice people.



toggletoggle post by xmikex at Oct 28,2009 9:17am
Depending on what you want to call post BM, Gris, Blut Aus Nord, Weakling.

When I listen to Krallice I feel like I'm playing Mouse Trap. Everybody else looks like they've having a great time with it, but when I open the box it's just a bunch of flimsy pieces that work a lot better getting caught in some infants esophagus then they do putting together something worthwhile.



toggletoggle post by arktouros at Oct 28,2009 9:20am
Conservationist said[orig][quote]
It all sucks. It's an excuse to make black metal into indie.


This would be legit except I'm sick of hearing clones in all types of metal. The aforementioned bands are a nice change of pace. Black metal is prone to experimentation (imagine if Enslaved kept making the same album), it would be hypocritical to rehash and reuse ideas and stick to a formula, it goes against the core values of the genre.

I don't think the black metal and indie lines of descent will cross anytime soon, unless you think they already have, either way I don't give a shit.

Of course bands like Beherit can stick to roots and fucking slay. Engram is not a clone album.

sli%20sli%20sli said[orig][quote]
even mayhems ordo ad chao and dodheimsgard supervillian outcast could be considered akin to this style...


Ordo Ad Chao is eeevvviiilllllll...these albums rule. Urfaust and especially The Black Flux by Virus have been getting well-deserved spins from me lately.



toggletoggle post by arktouros at Oct 28,2009 9:23am
xmikex said[orig][quote]
Everybody else looks like they've having a great time with it, but when I open the box it's just a bunch of flimsy pieces that work a lot better getting caught in some infants esophagus then they do putting together something worthwhile.


hahahah nice



toggletoggle post by MikeOfDecrepitude at Oct 28,2009 9:26am edited Oct 28,2009 9:28am
I thought the best Blut Aus Nord was Ultima Thulee, which was their (his) least experimental album.



toggletoggle post by Conservationist  at Oct 28,2009 9:28am
arktouros said[orig][quote]
Conservationist said[orig][quote]
It all sucks. It's an excuse to make black metal into indie.


This would be legit except I'm sick of hearing clones in all types of metal. The aforementioned bands are a nice change of pace.


Except that they're clones of something outside black metal. Why the hell would I pay for an inferior version of My Bloody Valentine mated to an inferior version of Gorgoroth?

I don't think style is everything. I think composition is, and you can do it in any style. Style is substitute for substance in many cases.



toggletoggle post by arktouros at Oct 28,2009 9:30am
I like Memoria Vestuvia I myself. But the drum machine is always hard to swallow for me.



toggletoggle post by arktouros at Oct 28,2009 9:37am
Conservationist said[orig][quote]

Except that they're clones of something outside black metal. Why the hell would I pay for an inferior version of My Bloody Valentine mated to an inferior version of Gorgoroth?

We're mixing races here! A mixed-race baby is inferior so this is not surprising!

Conservationist said[orig][quote]

I don't think style is everything. I think composition is, and you can do it in any style. Style is substitute for substance in many cases.


This is 100% true. Composition always wins. If superior composition meets black metal style then you have a winner for me - that's why I enjoy the bands I mentioned, and why I stay away from 90% of metal. A statement from Blut Aus Nord's vocalist I can agree with: "We don’t need to belong to a specific category of people to exist. If black metal is just this subversive feeling and not a basic musical style, then Blut Aus Nord is a black metal act. But if we have to be compared to all these childish satanic clowns, please let us work outwards [from] this pathetic circus. This form of art deserves something else than these mediocre bands and their old music composed 10 years before by someone else."




toggletoggle post by arilliusbm  at Oct 28,2009 9:44am
I would much rather see more bands experimenting with 70s prog (pre-rush, but a little rush doesn't hurt) or electronic stuff rather than something that is more aligned with "hipster" stuff today.
As stated above, composition is key.

And in my honest opinion, any band past 1996 is "post" black metal ;)



toggletoggle post by arktouros at Oct 28,2009 9:45am
70's prog is too fucking hard.



toggletoggle post by arktouros at Oct 28,2009 9:46am
And it's tough not to sound like Spinal Tap. It really is.



toggletoggle post by arilliusbm  at Oct 28,2009 9:46am
It's difficult, but attainable if more people strive for it.
I haven't experimented enough in my bands with that style of music, but I'd love to.



toggletoggle post by arilliusbm  at Oct 28,2009 9:48am
Nachtmystium is kind of attempting it, which is promising. But it's nothing that's akin to actual 70s prog IMO.



toggletoggle post by arktouros at Oct 28,2009 9:50am
(needs better drumming imo)



toggletoggle post by Martins   at Oct 28,2009 9:50am
What's some good 70's prog? If it does sound anything like Rush or anything remotely like Zappa, I will probably love it.



toggletoggle post by MikeOfDecrepitude at Oct 28,2009 9:51am edited Oct 28,2009 9:52am
arktouros said[orig][quote]
I like Memoria Vestuvia I myself. But the drum machine is always hard to swallow for me.


The drum machine sound was appropriate for The Work... and MoRT.
Personally, I dug MoRt; it portrays to me this decaying sewer system used as a breeding ground for Lovecraftian beasts.



toggletoggle post by arilliusbm  at Oct 28,2009 9:52am
Wouldn't want to hijack this thread Martins.. there's a bunch. We could bump a thread for that or start a new one sometime.

Germany has some excellent avantgarde black metal bands right now. Of course, too many beers during the Celtics game last night makes me forget half of their names



toggletoggle post by arktouros at Oct 28,2009 9:53am



toggletoggle post by Martins   at Oct 28,2009 9:56am
will read



toggletoggle post by goatcatalyst   at Oct 28,2009 11:29am
I think it's too easy / inviting to turn a discussion of "post-black metal" into a hipster pogrom. Perhaps we stay on course by talking about bands that expand the paradigm in interesting and inventive ways.

But please let the record show that I'm all for rounding up googly eyed hipsters and gassing them.



toggletoggle post by xmikex at Oct 28,2009 11:33am
MikeOfDecrepitude said[orig][quote]
I thought the best Blut Aus Nord was Ultima Thulee, which was their (his) least experimental album.


I always found that album a little stale.



toggletoggle post by arilliusbm  at Oct 28,2009 11:37am
It's too easy for hipsters to want to delve into the black metal realm.



toggletoggle post by arktouros at Oct 28,2009 11:39am
YEAH, THEY MUST START LIKE WE ALL DID....WITH METALLICA



toggletoggle post by arilliusbm  at Oct 28,2009 11:42am
Imma grab my flannel shirt and wear my Drudkh shirt under it, then get a bullcut before I go to shows. That'd be rad, dude.



toggletoggle post by xmikex at Oct 28,2009 11:47am
arktouros said[orig][quote]
YEAH, THEY MUST START LIKE WE ALL DID....WITH METALLICA


"I listened to Master of Puppets. Can I pleeease start my post black metal project now?"

No. Throw that out and buy a copy of Slowly We Rot. Then put in at least 20 hours in an AOL metal chat room. Then come see me when you're ready to get into your "what's the harm in buying a Hatebreed album" stage.



toggletoggle post by arilliusbm  at Oct 28,2009 11:51am
I'm thinking of dressing up like a hipster BM fan at tomorrow's MetalThursday. Flannel Shirt? Check. Hair long enough to comb over one eye? Check. Chuck Taylors? Check. Random BM band shirt that got popular on myspace? Check.



toggletoggle post by MikeOv at Oct 28,2009 11:51am
mike is on point!



toggletoggle post by goatcatalyst   at Oct 28,2009 12:08pm
arilliusbm said[orig][quote]
It's too easy for hipsters to want to delve into the black metal realm.


That's why I'm gonna start listening to more Blasphemy, taking steroids and hanging out at the gym.

Black metal shows should be more like mid 90s hardcore shows. Regular beatings and such.



toggletoggle post by quintessence  at Oct 28,2009 1:47pm
Another problem i have with these bands like Krallice is their music is really pointless. I don't get any sort of mood besides "oh this riff is somewhat catchy". Disposable, vapid and insulting music. I might as well listen to tech death metal. Black metal should evoke intense feelings and these bands do none of that. I don't care how experimental it is.



toggletoggle post by BobNOMAAMRooney nli at Oct 28,2009 1:48pm
I liked Cobalt's Eater of Birds, Gin just sort of bored me.



toggletoggle post by goatcatalyst   at Oct 28,2009 2:00pm
Same here, Wren. Gin ist shisse.



toggletoggle post by DestroyYouAlot  at Oct 28,2009 2:01pm
Black metal ist raviolis



toggletoggle post by arilliusbm  at Oct 28,2009 2:03pm
goatcatalyst said[orig][quote]
Same here, Wren. Gin ist shisse.


BOBnoMAAMRooney = Wren too?



toggletoggle post by goatcatalyst   at Oct 28,2009 2:05pm
Hold the phone - is BobnoMAAMRooney not Wren???



toggletoggle post by IRON HORSE at Oct 28,2009 11:52pm



toggletoggle post by Conservationist  at Oct 29,2009 2:36am
quintessence said[orig][quote]
Another problem i have with these bands like Krallice is their music is really pointless. I don't get any sort of mood besides "oh this riff is somewhat catchy". Disposable, vapid and insulting music. I might as well listen to tech death metal. Black metal should evoke intense feelings and these bands do none of that. I don't care how experimental it is.


You mean it's like all other pop music? Yeah, I agree. Directionless.



toggletoggle post by BobNOMAAMRooney nli at Oct 29,2009 3:32am
Not Wren



toggletoggle post by goatcatalyst   at Oct 29,2009 4:00am
Well I'll be double dipped in sour owl shit!



toggletoggle post by xmikex at Oct 29,2009 9:48am
Black metal should make you want to howl at the moon and not care if you were trapped inside a well for a thousand years.

Otherwise ur doIng it wR0nnG



toggletoggle post by Yeti at Oct 29,2009 12:50pm
Wolves in the Throne Room is one of the only new "black metal" bands that i pay attention to now. i'll stick with 1987-1999. black metal should give you lockjaw and arthritis in your fingers, not swoopy hair and an ironic moustache.



toggletoggle post by aril mobile at Oct 29,2009 1:02pm
I don't really like wittr that much. Not sure why



toggletoggle post by goatcatalyst   at Oct 29,2009 1:39pm
Black Metal is Devil Worship. Fuck any and every googly-eyed faggot who thinks otherwise.



toggletoggle post by MikeOv at Oct 29,2009 1:45pm
Wolves are good songwriters I think. Definitely not "post" black metal and certainly not as liberal as people claim they are.



toggletoggle post by ark nli at Oct 29,2009 1:48pm
^agreed



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