Be at the Boston Commons tomorrow at the Gazebo 730pm. This is a general assembly so don't bring a tent, the occupation will be planned here and ideas will be clouded.
I'm open to more info on what the Boston protest goals are. But I do hope they pick their protest location wisely. Downtown crossing during rush hour is probably not a good spot.
post by ark at Sep 26,2011 12:31pm
Whatever. Just don't follow london's example of rioting. Worst idea/worst backlash ever.
I don't have to tell you things are bad. Everybody knows things are bad. It's a depression. Everybody's out of work or scared of losing their job. The dollar buys a nickel's worth, banks are going bust, shopkeepers keep a gun under the counter. Punks are running wild in the street and there's nobody anywhere who seems to know what to do, and there's no end to it. We know the air is unfit to breathe and our food is unfit to eat, and we sit watching our TV's while some local newscaster tells us that today we had fifteen homicides and sixty-three violent crimes, as if that's the way it's supposed to be. We know things are bad - worse than bad. They're crazy. It's like everything everywhere is going crazy, so we don't go out anymore. We sit in the house, and slowly the world we are living in is getting smaller, and all we say is, 'Please, at least leave us alone in our living rooms. Let me have my toaster and my TV and my steel-belted radials and I won't say anything. Just leave us alone.' Well, I'm not gonna leave you alone. I want you to get mad! I don't want you to protest. I don't want you to riot - I don't want you to write to your congressman because I wouldn't know what to tell you to write. I don't know what to do about the depression and the inflation and the Russians and the crime in the street. All I know is that first you've got to get mad. You've got to say, 'I'm a HUMAN BEING, God damn it! My life has VALUE!' So I want you to get up now. I want all of you to get up out of your chairs. I want you to get up right now and go to the window. Open it, and stick your head out, and yell, 'I'M AS MAD AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE!' I want you to get up right now, sit up, go to your windows, open them and stick your head out and yell - 'I'm as mad as hell and I'm not going to take this anymore!' Things have got to change. But first, you've gotta get mad!... You've got to say, 'I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not going to take this anymore!' Then we'll figure out what to do about the depression and the inflation and the oil crisis. But first get up out of your chairs, open the window, stick your head out, and yell, and say it: "I'M AS MAD AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE!"
To create a new system that will fall apart when the next generation of humans takes it over because they don't know what they have, and then the generation after them will fix it again and it will fall apart for the exact same reason.
I'm not really sure, which is one of the reasons I've decided to go down there. The "movement" doesn't have incredibly specific aims at the moment. To my experience, its sort of akin to the beginning of the Tea Party when they were just an angry mob and hadn't really settled into any ideology aside from general American Conservatism.
However, I believe that the advantage of whatever this is over the Tea Party is that there really is an effort for a wide open dialogue amongst a large group of people who want primarily economic and fiscal reforms. The event tonight was basically a General Assembly of a bit over 1000 that met after 8 smaller working groups discussed agenda items. In addition to the leaders of the working groups there is an open stack for any person present to address the group for one minute. Since large PA's are not permitted a "people's mic" is employed through the audience closest to the speaker echoing his/her words to the rest of those gathered. The people's mic is actually remarkably efficient and a good way to keep the attention of a large crowd.
And Lamp: I'm sorry if this offends you but I truly don't understand the point of living if one has moved beyond the foolishness of faith and yet cannot have any hope for humanity. I figure that there is some small chance that this could be the beginning, and that at least bears investigating.
If I'm not mistaken, I believe the original goal of the Tea Party was lower taxes and waste, nothing else- all the loons piggybacked onto it and now it means nothing.
I expect the same here, but I was legitimately curious since you see the Wall St demonstrations and whatnot but not an actual goal defined anywhere. Yes, the economy sucks, but what can a mob do about it? Nothing will change until those in power lose it, and we're a long way from that. Amusingly enough, if it does come to that, there will be an enormous crash and then no one wins anyway.
And Lamp: I'm sorry if this offends you but I truly don't understand the point of living if one has moved beyond the foolishness of faith and yet cannot have any hope for humanity. I figure that there is some small chance that this could be the beginning, and that at least bears investigating.
None taken, it's something I'm trying to understand myself right now.
I think the posibility that over the past couple of years people are coming out of their apathetic shells is promising. I think momentum is building for engagement, and engagement is key to "change". Maybe the goals on Wall Street and here are not clearly established, but the important thing is that there is dialogue, there is an exchange of ideas. And there are clearly things the majority of people want that are being ignored even though they are widely publicised. However, mass protests are one way average people can lobby politicians. They want order and civility, when people cry to themselves but say nothing and accept the shit they are given of course those in power listen to $. But when people begin to remind them who is in charge (in an egaged democracratic society) they start to take notice.
But when people begin to remind them who is in charge (in an egaged democracratic society) they start to take notice.
this is important.
funny thing about activism - paying rent is tough when you're an activist.
post by ridahsofdizoom at Oct 1,2011 10:10am
I was at the event the other day and my friend, a fellow Lynner, is one of the organizer. He knows his shit for a young dude, he was down in Chile organizing student protests and he was in NYC at Occupy Wallstreet.
Basically the goal is to end the corruption of the 1 percent, demands include profits over people, affordable or free health care, education, jobs for all, and end the crimes of poverty, etc.
He and the organizers have tried to do their best to keep politics out of it, in fact he has gotten into some heated arguments with a local chapter of Socialist Alternative, who tried to hijack the movement and attach their beliefs onto the fliers...sadly they actually showed up and set their table up, a small group of people...but very loud and assertive...
I would say the people there were mostly students believing in some form of of lite democratic socialism, even if they don't know what it's called, something like the nordic countries employ.
There were old people, kids, workers, vets, and even business types still in their suits. I saw anarchists, libertarians, communists, socialists, more radical dems, even some local christian youth groups
that's a live stream, I left at about 830, from what I heard they planned on a short march near the bars to make some noise last night, wonder if there were any arrests.
Police presence at night was actually pretty relaxed, only about three officers hanging out in the distance when I left. Surprisingly the city is cool with tents, tarps, and what not even though there are no permits.
I guess they got hit hard with the rain, I'm being a bit cynical but I feel like the storm headed this way is going to limit numbers over this week, but there is a core group of a few hundred who are mostly students, jobless, and are fairly committed to keeping the tent city up.
also Chomsky is supposed to drop by or something today.
I've heard word about it happening in Providence and Hartford too, this must be happening country wide in some not-so-major cities as well.
post by blah blah at Oct 2,2011 5:10am
after some googling there is occupy providence. first meeting today. there is a FB page. Hartford, Maine (portland), San Francisco and more. Wish there was more media coverage although 700 getting arrested on the brooklyn bridge was a good way to get it. lulz.
post by pathetic at Oct 2,2011 6:11am
GOOD JOB STUPID HIPPIES. WHY DON'T YOU WORK ON SHOWERING BEFORE YOU TRY THIS. HOPE YOU ALL GET MACED. FAGGOTS. GET A JOB!!!!!!!!
I've heard word about it happening in Providence and Hartford too, this must be happening country wide in some not-so-major cities as well.
urban areas will see this. People in the mid west are too busy farming to give a shit. Where I live is a vacuum, everything is 5 years behind. Technology, finance, everything. It's awesome. Except I can't get higher than 3MPBS download speed, unless I went with Comcast, which is so overpriced I'll never go to them
Murder CEOs and rape their children or fuck right off. Ineffective faggots. True revolutionaries of the past are doing 1700 rpm in their graves.
This.
post by Doomkid at Oct 2,2011 1:32pm edited Oct 2,2011 1:33pm
Yesterday NYC police arrest more than 700 in one day (which is more than the number of people arrested over the ENTIRE Battle of Seattle.
There is some question whether the police misled protesters into thinking that their route was acceptable. They were all allowed onto the Brooklyn Bridge and then penned in at the end with now-iconic orange nets.
Yesterday in Boston there was a (long) march from Dewey Square, through the Financial District and Downtown Crossing, all the way down Newbury Street and back. I'm not sure how many people were there, I started out towards the back and would guess there was several hundred marching.
General Assembly tonight at 7PM. Seriously even if you don't give a fuck about shit, its worth coming down to check out. A little tent city has grown up to occupy the square with self-organized sanitation, medical (physical and mental), and security services.
post by ridahsofdizoom at Oct 2,2011 3:51pm
There will be an anarchist caucus tonight at 10pm at Dewey square.
In response the people complaining about a lack of murder/violence.
We're trying to keep this legit, a movement based on violence would never work, has never worked. Nonviolence is far more effective, look at all the kings, presidents, and heads of industry that were killed in the early 1900s...and nothing happened but repressive measures against immigrants and dissidents.
I'd rather see this stay nonviolent and grow daily, it's only 3 weeks old and we are seeing a new occupation each day, D.C. is on the 6th I believe, or the 10th...
My guess is that the cold weather will put a damper on it but after the deep freeze is over it will surge again as we move closer into political elections and as the economy falls even lower, which will happen, this is a jobless "recovery" and by recovery I mean not for us, for the owners.
I don't have to tell you things are bad. Everybody knows things are bad. It's a depression. Everybody's out of work or scared of losing their job. The dollar buys a nickel's worth, banks are going bust, shopkeepers keep a gun under the counter. Punks are running wild in the street and there's nobody anywhere who seems to know what to do, and there's no end to it. We know the air is unfit to breathe and our food is unfit to eat, and we sit watching our TV's while some local newscaster tells us that today we had fifteen homicides and sixty-three violent crimes, as if that's the way it's supposed to be. We know things are bad - worse than bad. They're crazy. It's like everything everywhere is going crazy, so we don't go out anymore. We sit in the house, and slowly the world we are living in is getting smaller, and all we say is, 'Please, at least leave us alone in our living rooms. Let me have my toaster and my TV and my steel-belted radials and I won't say anything. Just leave us alone.' Well, I'm not gonna leave you alone. I want you to get mad! I don't want you to protest. I don't want you to riot - I don't want you to write to your congressman because I wouldn't know what to tell you to write. I don't know what to do about the depression and the inflation and the Russians and the crime in the street. All I know is that first you've got to get mad. You've got to say, 'I'm a HUMAN BEING, God damn it! My life has VALUE!' So I want you to get up now. I want all of you to get up out of your chairs. I want you to get up right now and go to the window. Open it, and stick your head out, and yell, 'I'M AS MAD AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE!' I want you to get up right now, sit up, go to your windows, open them and stick your head out and yell - 'I'm as mad as hell and I'm not going to take this anymore!' Things have got to change. But first, you've gotta get mad!... You've got to say, 'I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not going to take this anymore!' Then we'll figure out what to do about the depression and the inflation and the oil crisis. But first get up out of your chairs, open the window, stick your head out, and yell, and say it: "I'M AS MAD AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE!"
Got to the window part and all I could think of was JG Wentworth... "ITS MY MONEY AND I WANT IT NOW!"
I think the posibility that over the past couple of years people are coming out of their apathetic shells is promising. I think momentum is building for engagement, and engagement is key to "change". Maybe the goals on Wall Street and here are not clearly established, but the important thing is that there is dialogue, there is an exchange of ideas. And there are clearly things the majority of people want that are being ignored even though they are widely publicised. However, mass protests are one way average people can lobby politicians. They want order and civility, when people cry to themselves but say nothing and accept the shit they are given of course those in power listen to $. But when people begin to remind them who is in charge (in an egaged democracratic society) they start to take notice.
agreed. this current "activism" is a nice gesture in theory, but it will not accomplish anything. do any of the scum in power give a rats ass if 1000 people disagree with their ways? they hold the money, they hold the power. it isn't until the system is gutted, those that have committed blatant crimes are prosecuted, and new heads are brought in that we have any hope for change. i don't think it's as lost as Lamp said, because of what is quoted above. the simple fact that there is more and more dialogue presents a semblance of hope. but it's going to be painful, and it's going to take a long time to undo the web that has been weaved. power will always breed corruption, but i have to believe that the tides can turn. when the bullshit baby boomers are thrown in a stockade, and people from our generation start filling their vacancies, i believe that we do have a chance to regain what was lost. otherwise as Doomkid pointed out, there is no point in continuing on if the collective agreement is that all is lost, all is fucked, lets just walk around as the undead until we actually die.
Murder CEOs and rape their children in the streets or shut the fuck up, pacifist cunts. I wish I had a terminal disease; I'd lead by example.
post by Mark_R at Oct 3,2011 11:24am edited Oct 3,2011 11:25am
Yes, with hauptpflucker, Riders, Yeti, etc.
This "movement" thing isn't a corvette that goes from zero to sixty in five seconds. Nobody expects a group of people carrying signs today to become a full blown revolution tomorrow. But it IS good to take a few first steps where before we were doing basically nothing. Then someone will be prompted to go a step further. Then a step further. And so on. So we aren't storming any corporate buildings just yet, but we're starting from a point where people are looking up at the skyscrapers and saying "Someone down here gives a shit, and we are telling you that we do."
I support this thing where it is now and I hope it does lead to something stronger. Do I expect it to last through the winter? No. Would I be happily surprised if it DOES? Yes.
Ineffective faggot nigger hippie commie bullshit until the CEO pogroms commence and the streets are littered with the sodomized corpses of their children.
This "movement" thing isn't a corvette that goes from zero to sixty in five seconds. Nobody expects a group of people carrying signs today to become a full blown revolution tomorrow. But it IS good to take a few first steps where before we were doing basically nothing. Then someone will be prompted to go a step further. Then a step further. And so on. So we aren't storming any corporate buildings just yet, but we're starting from a point where people are looking up at the skyscrapers and saying "Someone down here gives a shit, and we are telling you that we do."
I support this thing where it is now and I hope it does lead to something stronger. Do I expect it to last through the winter? No. Would I be happily surprised if it DOES? Yes.
This "movement" thing isn't a corvette that goes from zero to sixty in five seconds. Nobody expects a group of people carrying signs today to become a full blown revolution tomorrow. But it IS good to take a few first steps where before we were doing basically nothing. Then someone will be prompted to go a step further. Then a step further. And so on. So we aren't storming any corporate buildings just yet, but we're starting from a point where people are looking up at the skyscrapers and saying "Someone down here gives a shit, and we are telling you that we do."
I support this thing where it is now and I hope it does lead to something stronger. Do I expect it to last through the winter? No. Would I be happily surprised if it DOES? Yes.
this whole thing is so funny.. its going to backfire real quick.. learn a useful trade, get a job or just make your own shit and quit yer bitchen, bitchezz
this whole thing is so funny.. its going to backfire real quick.. learn a useful trade, get a job or just make your own shit and quit yer bitchen, bitchezz
a trade? name one that doesn't involve unions that is still available to Americans. Also, name one trade that won't leave you crippled by age 35, yeah, I'm looking at you roofers. How can you not be on the side of the 99%. The gov't and banking industry played chicken with our money and lost bigtime, then got bailed out for doing so.
it's a world problem. there is no accountability in finance.
the american protests are specifically geared toward repealing the citizens united act, but there are literally the same problems all over the world.
A friend of mine had a bunch of supplies she wanted to drop off, so we swung by the tent city. We dropped the stuff to some really greatful guys and that's when I noticed the cop running up the sidewalk screaming into his radio about the "drop off".
We hightailed it out of there. COOL STORY BRO.
Says the guy who owns designer dogs, lives in the whitest state in america, is a vegan, and drives an eco-friendly car...
Second whitest state.
"Census: Maine oldest, whitest state in nation"
But my parents are rich enough for me to not work and camp out in the middle of a city.
post by ernie at Oct 17,2011 2:28pm edited Oct 17,2011 2:29pm
this whole thing is so funny.. its going to backfire real quick.. learn a useful trade, get a job or just make your own shit and quit yer bitchen, bitchezz
a trade? name one that doesn't involve unions that is still available to Americans. Also, name one trade that won't leave you crippled by age 35, yeah, I'm looking at you roofers. How can you not be on the side of the 99%. The gov't and banking industry played chicken with our money and lost bigtime, then got bailed out for doing so.
sounds like youre just too scared to actually work for a living
this whole thing is so funny.. its going to backfire real quick.. learn a useful trade, get a job or just make your own shit and quit yer bitchen, bitchezz
a trade? name one that doesn't involve unions that is still available to Americans. Also, name one trade that won't leave you crippled by age 35, yeah, I'm looking at you roofers. How can you not be on the side of the 99%. The gov't and banking industry played chicken with our money and lost bigtime, then got bailed out for doing so.
sounds like youre just too scared to actually work for a living
yeah, work for a living, great, everybody does. it's not about that. the fact that i work for a living has nothing to do with how pissed off people are that if you want an education, you are GUARANTEED to live a life of DEBT, and that our democracy is BROKEN.
wealth inequality creates unrest. this is a rule of history. that's why this shit is happening. YOU are saying "work for a living and shut your mouth. pay no attention to financial interests hijacking your government."
i'd be out there if i didn't have to work. AND i'm the farthest thing from a liberal.
When expectations deviate so far from reality; is when revolutions happen. The fact of the matter is that majority of Americans have had there standard of living reduced noticeably, while others are profiting on it. People are pissed, and they should be.
This country rewards risk, entrepreneurship and innovation. Nothing wrong with that. When you fail you fail and try to pick up the pieces, you don't get bailed out with tax payers money just to give giant bonuses to fucking millionaire ceos. Make bad choices, crash the market, fuck everyone, then be forgiven with billions of dollars….. Fucking cunts.
There is a reason only 20% of the population votes, and that’s because they feel the government doesn't represent them. They're right, the politicians represent the people that pay for their campaigns.
oh yeah, and fuck the welfare state, i want to be able to work and support myself without the government up my ass. You should be able to work 40 hours min wage and be able to eat, pay for a modest living have some type of shitty health insurance and still be able to save something.
I work over 40 hours a week and have 30K$ in student loans I'm going to have to repay next year, so go fuck yourself ark or ernie or fucking buttmunch, whatever your dumb name is. I probably borrowed more than I can pay off, can I just throw my hands up and say "fuck it" like the banks did? No I can't.
I busted my ass, got high honors at a TRADE SCHOOL in a trade that ISN'T tied to a union, got a job in my field of study and had to apply for forbearance of the loan because there is now way I can support my family AND pay 350$ a month in loan repayment
What kind of work do you dicksucks do that makes you think these protests are invalid?
I work over 40 hours a week and have 30K$ in student loans I'm going to have to repay next year, so go fuck yourself ark or ernie or fucking buttmunch, whatever your dumb name is. I probably borrowed more than I can pay off, can I just throw my hands up and say "fuck it" like the banks did? No I can't.
I busted my ass, got high honors at a TRADE SCHOOL in a trade that ISN'T tied to a union, got a job in my field of study and had to apply for forbearance of the loan because there is now way I can support my family AND pay 350$ a month in loan repayment
What kind of work do you dicksucks do that makes you think these protests are invalid?
So you fucked up borrowing more than you should have and that is someone else's fault? Incorrect logic is incorrect. If we did forgive people's student loans, I can't wait for 10 years from now when they didn't learn their lesson and they get a mortgage they can't afford and we have to forgive those too.
some people need to understand that the world will always need plumpers, automechanics, sanitation works, etc... and there is nothing wrong with that. Not everyone should go to school for $50K a year to study something that isnt' going to make $50K a year.
[QUOTE="the_reverend:1245815"Not everyone should go to school
SERIOUSLY. School is not for everyone. BUT someone should be able to live on minimum wage if they're smart with money. Problem is today, especially if you have a family, that's impossible.
half the problem is everyone is bred to "go to college" only so you can be marketable. you need to pay to get certified no matter what you do. education costs are unbalanced. you are forced to take out a loan you might not be able to pay off, no matter what you do, if only to make yourself "marketable" to employers.
post by RustyPS should be working at Oct 19,2011 9:41am
It's taken me a while to pay attention to what's going on with these protests, but from what I've read, heard, etc. about what the protestors are fighting for, it seems to me like there really isn't a prevalent, unifying cause that the whole group believes in. It's about anti-government for some people, anti-rich for others, anti-corporate greed for several people, forgiving student loans for a portion of people (I'll get to that in a minute), but nothing that EVERYONE is agreeing on, and if that's true (to be honest, I must claim ignorance, I'm not down there, so I don't know if the news is feeding me bullshit when it comes to this), then I don't see this being successful. It seems like there's a lack of organization of what the ultimate goal is here, and if it's just a bunch of people standing and shouting for random issues, then the government (or whoever else this is aimed at) is not going to listen, and all of this would be for not. Can someone that is more educated on what's going on please tell me what this is about?
About the student loans part though, I must agree with Rev's point from earlier, and this is coming from someone who has a shitload of loans to pay back. It was my choice to take the loans, why should the government just say "Alright, fine, we will forgive your loans even though you did not have to take this money from us to begin with." I could have went to a less expensive school that I could have better afforded, I could have skipped school all together and went straight to work after high school (I know plenty of people who make more than me right now that did not go to college, or dropped out of college), everyone has options. Just because it sucks for me and you that we will be paying our loans back for most of our lives does not mean we deserve to be forgiven for paying back money we did not have to take in the first place.
Can someone that is more educated on what's going on please tell me what this is about?
the crux of it is to introduce a constitutional amendment that defines the (lack of) personhood of a corporation, and more specifically to repeal the citizen's united supreme court decision.
generally, the sentiment is the government is a slave to the global finance system, through open corruption practices of lobbying and closed-door deals and private contracting with public money. the US and Europe, hell the world is experiencing sharp declines in basic public services because of the financial sector's behavior. the financial sector private system with no accountability, yet they have direct control of the economy and direct control of people's lives.
what's the solution? i don't know. but the first step is to get mad, right? people aren't really looking to have someone else pay their loans off. protesters aren't looking for a handout. ultimately the inequality of wealth in the US is directly proportional to the poorest 3rd world countires, and that in itself is wrong.
it is that way because the pyramid scheme of government goes from local taxes all they way up to congress who, if they have to come to deadlock over basic health services or defaulting the country for political points, they're obviously not working in the interests of the people. when it can't make a decision over net neutrality, and the FCC has to meet verizon lobbyists behind closed doors, it's obviously working in favor of verizon and at&t. it's obviously broken. you know no matter who you elect, they enter the system as soon as they sit on the bench, and they are powerless to change it if they tried.
the reason the protests are so stratified on the political system, is because it really is a global problem. there are captitalists protesting with anticapitalists, anarchists protesting with conservatives. some want to eliminate the fed reserve. some want to gut the system. some want accountability. they all want basic services that they already pay for with taxes. some people are sick of the cash black hole in the middle east. it's a populist protest, which borderlines on a populist revolution. it's a real issue that will only gain more public support, and no political party can latch onto it for votes.
it's definitely not random issues. these are all related. the people know what the banks did with the pile of bailout cash. executives pocketed it and the gap between wealth and poverty got wider. look at any populist revolution and when you drill past political motives, it's always about desire to close the gap. the american revolution was supported by colonial elite because then they wouldn't have to pay the King's tax, and it got popular support for the same reason. look at egypt and all the middle east protests and revolutions all year. there are protests in the richest european countries. people know what the banks did and they're pissed. G20, bilderberg, people are starting to talk about it more and more. i'm rambling like a motherfucker but i hope you get the idea.
Can someone that is more educated on what's going on please tell me what this is about?
the crux of it is to introduce a constitutional amendment that defines the (lack of) personhood of a corporation, and more specifically to repeal the citizen's united supreme court decision.
generally, the sentiment is the government is a slave to the global finance system, through open corruption practices of lobbying and closed-door deals and private contracting with public money. the US and Europe, hell the world is experiencing sharp declines in basic public services because of the financial sector's behavior. the financial sector private system with no accountability, yet they have direct control of the economy and direct control of people's lives.
what's the solution? i don't know. but the first step is to get mad, right? people aren't really looking to have someone else pay their loans off. protesters aren't looking for a handout. ultimately the inequality of wealth in the US is directly proportional to the poorest 3rd world countires, and that in itself is wrong.
it is that way because the pyramid scheme of government goes from local taxes all they way up to congress who, if they have to come to deadlock over basic health services or defaulting the country for political points, they're obviously not working in the interests of the people. when it can't make a decision over net neutrality, and the FCC has to meet verizon lobbyists behind closed doors, it's obviously working in favor of verizon and at&t. it's obviously broken. you know no matter who you elect, they enter the system as soon as they sit on the bench, and they are powerless to change it if they tried.
Okay, I can agree with and get behind all that. Here's the problem I see:
1) As you said, what's the solution? A bunch of people shouting about this and not offering a outline to change what's wrong isn't very productive, and it certainly will fall on the deaf ears of the government. To them, it probably sounds like when a big group of characters of South Park complain about something, "RABBLERABBLERABBLERABBLERABBLERABBLERABBLERABBLE"
Now, I'm certainly not smart enough to come up with a way to change the problems you've presented, and I don't know who is, but until a solution is presented, then I don't think this is going to go anywhere.
2) If that is indeed the unifying issue the Occupy people are fighting for, then that's great, but then you seem to have these other people that "joined the cause" just to protest something completely different, and those seem to be the louder people, making this all look like an unorganized mess to some (including myself). I don't know how to fix that either, but that would seem to be hurting the cause as well.
post by RustyPS should be working at Oct 19,2011 10:24am
it's definitely not random issues. these are all related. the people know what the banks did with the pile of bailout cash. executives pocketed it and the gap between wealth and poverty got wider. look at any populist revolution and when you drill past political motives, it's always about desire to close the gap. the american revolution was supported by colonial elite because then they wouldn't have to pay the King's tax, and it got popular support for the same reason. look at egypt and all the middle east protests and revolutions all year. there are protests in the richest european countries. people know what the banks did and they're pissed. G20, bilderberg, people are starting to talk about it more and more. i'm rambling like a motherfucker but i hope you get the idea.
Alright, well, I'll just have to take your word for it. I don't follow politics much, mainly because neither side can put aside their differences and work together for the good of the country. With that said, I know that if a group seems unorganized, whether it's perception or reality, then their goals will fall short. If all you say is what the main issue being protested for, then I hope it's successful in bringing about change.
post by arktouros at Oct 19,2011 10:25am edited Oct 19,2011 10:26am
well a popular protest is bound to have many different ideas about how to fix it. the deaf ears of the government -- the truth is that no matter what politicians say they can't fix it. they will take the demands "under consideration" and it will be business as usual. the protestors certainly don't expect politicians to eliminate corruption and provide COMPLETE transparency and i don't either. that's a popular and vague goal but i'm sure it's basically what everyone wants.
a solution isn't needed when everyone's fed up. a solution comes from laying the problems out in the open for all to see, and keep shouting the problems over and over again. it takes time. the civil rights movement was 2 decades of struggle. i doubt that these protests will lose steam anytime soon.
I work over 40 hours a week and have 30K$ in student loans I'm going to have to repay next year, so go fuck yourself ark or ernie or fucking buttmunch, whatever your dumb name is. I probably borrowed more than I can pay off, can I just throw my hands up and say "fuck it" like the banks did? No I can't.
I busted my ass, got high honors at a TRADE SCHOOL in a trade that ISN'T tied to a union, got a job in my field of study and had to apply for forbearance of the loan because there is now way I can support my family AND pay 350$ a month in loan repayment
What kind of work do you dicksucks do that makes you think these protests are invalid?
So you fucked up borrowing more than you should have and that is someone else's fault? Incorrect logic is incorrect. If we did forgive people's student loans, I can't wait for 10 years from now when they didn't learn their lesson and they get a mortgage they can't afford and we have to forgive those too.
Are you fucking retarded? where did I say I wanted a bail out? Yea, I borrowed more than I can pay back, that's why I deferred it and WILL pay it back when I can afford it. The point is....oh forget it, have a happy birthday dipshit
1) As you said, what's the solution? A bunch of people shouting about this and not offering a outline to change what's wrong isn't very productive, and it certainly will fall on the deaf ears of the government. To them, it probably sounds like when a big group of characters of South Park complain about something, "RABBLERABBLERABBLERABBLERABBLERABBLERABBLERABBLE"
that's my biggest issue. what do these fatcats in Wall Street care? they willfully fucked us over, now we're pissed, and they are supposed to change? they hold the cash, they hold the power.
to me, the only way anything will change is if Congress brings these financial criminals up on charges for the crimes they blatantly committed. but since that will never happen, we aren't going to see any change. Unless someone like Ron Paul comes into office and just fires everyone, and then replaces them with people who actually want to help the public, it's just going to continue. These protests are a sign of changing tides, but still only a symbolic gesture. i truly hope for change, but i won't hold my breath.
basically the only thing that can bring about real change right now is an environmental catastrophe that kills 5 out of the 6 billion people alive right now.
right... cause shits so much worse now and has ever been even. Let them eat cake.
post by ernie at Oct 21,2011 2:27am edited Oct 21,2011 2:28am
heres the only reasonable thing most people can do about this situation that i have seen...
http://www.facebook.com/Nov.Fifth dont take my comments as me completely disagreeing with you, but i feel that if everyone had any self control, patience and sense of responsibility in the first place, nobody would have a thing to complain about.... their are a bunch of people that need to go to jail for ripping "us" off and "our" govt is turning a blind eye because they are all in the same pockets together, but standing around holding up a sign next to a guy yelling THE JEWS DID IT will never accomplish a thing... stop using credit cards, taking out loans, using banks all together and see how much any of this really affects you and you might understand why i could have such a who gives a fuck attitude..
i feel that if everyone had any self control, patience and sense of responsibility in the first place, nobody would have a thing to complain about.... QUOTE]
wrong.
it is also impossible, in any standard btw.
people that have made good choices in there lives still get fucked. fact.
stop using credit cards, taking out loans, using banks all together and see how much any of this really affects you and you might understand why i could have such a who gives a fuck attitude..
hey did you know your taxes are paying for $122 billion in subsidies to Exxon and Chevron, after they're posting record profits left and right? i'm glad you're ok with that. congress is really going to bat for you on this.
For ever one person with a legitimate argument, there are 50(bajillion) others that are just whining about there own stupid mistakes that got them into debt. I'm sorry that your student loans that you used to pay for your degree in woman's-studies didn't pan out in the real world.
It's just the fucking tea-party with smelly dreadlocks and much more ganja.
(I agree with exposing shady corporate practices and cheating wall-street pigs...if only that is what this stupid 'occupy' events actually did).
"I agree with what the protests are about, I just don't like the protesters because the news told me they are liberals." AWESOME ATTITUDE BRO.
The news didn't, they themselves did. And I don't care if they are liberals/conservatives, I just wouldn't want to associate myself with 99% (lulz) of the people involved. And LOLOLOL at thinking these protests are actually about anything in particular. It's about people wanting to expose corporate/wall street bullshit, yes, but it's about them doing so by applying it to their own personal agendas.
One example:
"YES, so we agree, tax the rich!"
"Wait what, I thought this was about being anti-bailouts/anti wall-street corruption/etc. etc."
"WELL YES, BUT ALSO THOSE SAME RICH FOLKS SHOULD BE PENALIZED FOR BEING RICH!"
stop using credit cards, taking out loans, using banks all together and see how much any of this really affects you and you might understand why i could have such a who gives a fuck attitude..
hey did you know your taxes are paying for $122 billion in subsidies to Exxon and Chevron, after they're posting record profits left and right? i'm glad you're ok with that. congress is really going to bat for you on this.
we've had the wealthy tax discussion on here before. regardless, i pay enough taxes, the government makes enough in tax revenue either way. the problem is where the tax money goes.
stop using credit cards, taking out loans, using banks all together and see how much any of this really affects you and you might understand why i could have such a who gives a fuck attitude..
hey did you know your taxes are paying for $122 billion in subsidies to Exxon and Chevron, after they're posting record profits left and right? i'm glad you're ok with that. congress is really going to bat for you on this.
.
LOL no, YOUR taxes are paying for that.. I've decided to be invisible years ago.. I don't have anything of substantial value to show for my work, but I sure as shit aren't contributing to any of that..
THERE ARE MANY FUCKING PROBLEMS. PEOPLE ARE PROTESTING MORE THAN ONE THING AT ONCE
jesus christ why is that so hard for people to understand.
Nobody is confused by it. It's easy to understand.
It's just a fucking stupid thing too do.
It's not even 'more than one thing' that fit together in any sort of way.
Yes it's a tired fucking cliche, but it's true: don't start a war on two (or three, or four, or five, or...) and expect to win.
post by FuckIsMySignature at Oct 21,2011 3:13pm edited Oct 21,2011 3:14pm
Not everything in life fits together in a neat little pattern. People are pissed off that their government no longer represents them and protesting about it. If you think that is stupid then I feel sorry for you.
Not everything in life fits together in a neat little pattern. People are pissed off that their government no longer represents them and protesting about it. If you think that is stupid then I feel sorry for you.
It's not stupid if you mean that it is lethargic for them. It is stupid if they think the way they are going about it is going to accomplish anything.
Its fucking something man. its better than sitting by and letting shit happen without voicing your concerns.
Well, that all depends on the outcome. Right now it seems to be setting their cause back because of the way they present themselves, thus 'doing nothing' would have been more useful.
I thought the idea was pretty nifty at first, than i saw footage of the protests, heard them talk, read their signs, etc. and that changed my whole outlook on OWS.
I know my opinion really doesn't matter, but it's just one example. I'm sure I'm not the only person that this happened too.
stop using credit cards, taking out loans, using banks all together and see how much any of this really affects you and you might understand why i could have such a who gives a fuck attitude..
hey did you know your taxes are paying for $122 billion in subsidies to Exxon and Chevron, after they're posting record profits left and right? i'm glad you're ok with that. congress is really going to bat for you on this.
.
LOL no, YOUR taxes are paying for that.. I've decided to be invisible years ago.. I don't have anything of substantial value to show for my work, but I sure as shit aren't contributing to any of that..
Are you trying to tell me that you never buy anything? Don't have a job? Are homeless?
I thought the idea was pretty nifty at first, than i saw footage of the protests, heard them talk, read their signs, etc. and that changed my whole outlook on OWS.
i don't know man, that's kind of a shame, making it sound like you would protest too only if everyone looked and talked a certain way. i don't know if you formed your opinion from MSM, but of course they'll show a bunch of crusty hippies. there's people i don't care to associate myself with either but the true demographic of the activists stretch far beyond that representation, especially considering the same protests are going on globally.
post by ark at Oct 21,2011 4:54pm
meh, people will see what they want to see. even at the tipping point there will always be people saying "well this isn't the revolution i wanted, i will continue to do nothing"
Its fucking something man. its better than sitting by and letting shit happen without voicing your concerns.
Well, that all depends on the outcome. Right now it seems to be setting their cause back because of the way they present themselves, thus 'doing nothing' would have been more useful.
I thought the idea was pretty nifty at first, than i saw footage of the protests, heard them talk, read their signs, etc. and that changed my whole outlook on OWS.
I know my opinion really doesn't matter, but it's just one example. I'm sure I'm not the only person that this happened too.
did you ever give up on metal because you went to a show full of fags?
For ever one person with a legitimate argument, there are 50(bajillion) others that are just whining about there own stupid mistakes that got them into debt.
legitimate arguments dont matter when there are 50(bajillion) other shitty arguments?
your not thinking. Its just popular where ever you are to bash these people because they look like hippies, and smell like hippies, so they must be hippies.
let me give you a history lesson so that you can understand this isn't the 60s and this isn't going to stop.
1. 60s hippies were mostly uppermiddle class (think fake poor crusty).
Occupiers while yes have uppermiddle class, also has the working class. you know people that have to work there asses off, and don't expect anything.
2. hippies eventually grew up went to the suburbs and got jobs.
there are no jobs right now for occupiers to go to. even shitty ones.
Its fucking something man. its better than sitting by and letting shit happen without voicing your concerns.
Well, that all depends on the outcome. Right now it seems to be setting their cause back because of the way they present themselves, thus 'doing nothing' would have been more useful.
I thought the idea was pretty nifty at first, than i saw footage of the protests, heard them talk, read their signs, etc. and that changed my whole outlook on OWS.
I know my opinion really doesn't matter, but it's just one example. I'm sure I'm not the only person that this happened too.
did you ever give up on metal because you went to a show full of fags?
Crap analogy. I go to metal shows to enjoy metal music.
Protests are just a way to accomplish something. So yes, if I go to one and feel that it isn't accomplishing anything I will find another means.
Protests aren't the goal, they are supposed to be a way towards a goal, and they are one of the crappiest ways to get there.
post by FuckIsMySignature at Oct 21,2011 5:20pm edited Oct 21,2011 5:21pm
So what's your plan then? If you are so sure this plan of attack sucks, you must have a better idea?
Its fucking something man. its better than sitting by and letting shit happen without voicing your concerns.
Well, that all depends on the outcome. Right now it seems to be setting their cause back because of the way they present themselves, thus 'doing nothing' would have been more useful.
I thought the idea was pretty nifty at first, than i saw footage of the protests, heard them talk, read their signs, etc. and that changed my whole outlook on OWS.
I know my opinion really doesn't matter, but it's just one example. I'm sure I'm not the only person that this happened too.
did you ever give up on metal because you went to a show full of fags?
Crap analogy. I go to metal shows to enjoy metal music.
Protests are just a way to accomplish something. So yes, if I go to one and feel that it isn't accomplishing anything I will find another means.
Protests aren't the goal, they are supposed to be a way towards a goal, and they are one of the crappiest ways to get there.
just walked by some fat fuck in a lawn chair with flab hanging out the side. He was holding a "STOP OCCUPYING YOUR COUCH AND DO SOMETHING" sign, all while eating donut holes from Dunkin Donuts.
Maybe it's just because I've only seen it at night, but Occupy Providence seems really easy to ignore. There's a bunch of tents and signs and what not at Burnside Park, yeah... the cops don't seem to give a shit. Are they actually doing anything during the day?
It would be pretty cool to see them make a mess out of traffic in the circle where the big skyscrapers are, especially considering not too far from that is the Bank of America building around 3-5pm... maybe they're doing that already?
Well then I hope they're at least standing on the sidewalks holding signs and handing out pamphlets and shit in the middle of the day, but I've heard no reports of this whatsoever.
But yeah, I'd like to see the Wall Street Sharkrannosaurus manage a class of mainstream third graders, never mind a cohort of 8 kids of varying needs on the autism spectrum.
worcester mayor o'brien is openly supporting the occupy movement, attending a GA and offering the city council room for assemblies. that's pretty fucking awesome.
I WISH THESE PEOPLE WOULD CLAIM THEY'RE PART OF THE SAME 99% AS ME. CAN WE BREAK IT UP FURTHER TO SEPARATE THE POOR SMART PEOPLE FROM THE POOR RETARDS?
I LOVE HAVING PEOPLE I HAVE NO AGREEMENT WITH OR RESPECT FOR CLAIMING TO REPRESENT MYSELF AND MY NEEDS. EAT A DICK, CARROT TOP.
Semi-related: thousands of old people are rallying in front of the Wang building here in Boston to save social security. And because they love Wang.
post by David D. Davidson at Nov 19,2011 11:07am
when will OWS learn, redistribution of wealth will never work, because the government doesn't control the bank accounts of people like Bill Gates and large corperations like the banks.
From what you stated i can make this analogy, the OWS protests are like when your at burger king and you only have enough money to buy a Jr Whopper combo because you wasted all your birthday/christmas money on a new iMac and to pay for art school tuition at a local community college, you turn around and you see this gentlemen dressed in a nice suit enjoying a meal of 2 Whoppers . So you gather all the broke-ass, hipster, spoiled, art-schoolFags who were probably raised in an upper-middle class or lower-upper class household into a protest outside the local government building. You then start demanding that the government needs to step in and make the man give you a bite of his whopper, because you were to busy buying vintage Nikes on eBay rather then being intelligent with your life and doing one of two things 1)learning a worthwhile skill that would stay stable in todays job market.
2) you could always get an education so you could become the 1% and shot whoppers on the poor people.
Troll davidson and I speak the same language. When someone was screaming at me about this, I said sorry, I only know what protestors blog from their iphones.
