The people I work with are generally smart, outgoing, nice folks. We can engage in friendly intellectual discussions, from outlooks on global lifestyles to politics. Ecuadorian Seventh-day Adventist ex-Marine, sharp-witted fast talking Vietnamese guy, slow-witted materialistic young white mother, old crusty classic rock musician guy, I work with them all.

So this morning I get in to the office, walk buy the networking crew area where a few of them are engaged in a heated discussion about something. "Early people were migrating and isolated, Chinese....Eskimos look asian...." I thought, ok, we're getting somewhere with this, but I didn't get involved.

Then I hear "look man, I'm not going to turn into a monkey" followed by "here, I'm gonna show you a video about how we have the same DNA as a tree." (of course, bringing DNA into the discussion makes your argument invalid in the first place.)

I wasn't going to be lured into this one early in the morning. I kept clear of it for my own sanity.

Anybody have any enlightening discussions / encounter extreme stupidity with coworkers?

I generally tend to ignore religious and/or political discussions in the office because you don't know what it will lead to. There were times where I had to put my 2 cents in, but I don't want to get involved much further than that. The lady next to me is pretty religious, and she looks at me differently when I told her I don't believe in God/Jesus and that they are allegorical representations of the star calender and the Sun. Of course, I can't stand half of the people I work with, and the fact I work in the Fed makes me want to puke.

I tend to avoid religious/polical debates on the internet.

I avoid my co-workers whenever possible.

Unless people have a debate background, all discussions end in a draw and bring out the worst in people.

I go out of my way to avoid discussing stuff like that with anyone. I don't give a shit what anyone else thinks.

I also hate finding out people I like are god freaks. It may make me an asshole but I automatically think a lot less of them after that. Ditto for anti-abortion rights people. Ditto for people who watch Bill ORLY for anything other than comedic value.

Bill ORLY is one of the best comedies on tv right now

I used to think this way, but then I read Meister Eckhart and realized how important the interpretation of God is.

I hear that. I do have clients/co-workers that are into the jesus, but we don't discuss it -- they must sense that I am a heathen. Though I attempt to treat them fairly, it does make me not trust them.

I always love when coworkers ask me what kind of band I'm in and if they could come see me play.

All that Fox News fodder is terrific comedy. Fear mongering, feeding into traditional ignorance of the masses.

We have some time on our hands occasionally. If that stuff comes up I could debate all day without being argumentative. The people that I can do that with, I respect, no matter what they believe. I think less of followers.

Pam, I hate it too, it doesn't make you an asshole. Because you're right. We just intrinsically know that we're right, and they think the same way about themselves. That's why I really can't associate with those people. And then there's some people that just follow tradition and never question anything; don't have an opinion either way. Luckily my co-workers, because everyone is so diverse (I know you hate that word Conservationist) and while we have differences, everybody's respectable about it, and we get shit done and have a good time on occasion.

I'm glad I work in a place where I'm judged by my attitude and ability and not anything else.

The younger people I work with tend to share my views more, but they still can be ignorant and follow whatever their favorite news site on the internet tells them.

I wouldn't ever hang out with any of them outside of work. That's where I draw the line. We all surround ourselves with like-minded people so there will always be a rift on so many issues.

Whatever. Dying breeds anyway.

when i tried to describe music i like to a coworker the other day, she said "what is doom metal?"

i was sad when i found out kyle cooper is a devout christian and even sadder when i found out jason lee and ethan suplee are scientologists.

I don't think those people have read him (I haven't); most people's interpretations of god are NOT that deep to begin with.

TIM CRUISES IS??

I bet Rich Bova is.

People are too caught up in their own little world to WORRY about stuff. They are comforted by their faith. There's really not much you can do to a person to change that. It really comes down to the individual.
Outside of religion, I've opened my mouth about how much I despise the monetary money system and Federal Reserve, how I think 9/11 was an inside job, and various other things which I believe and support.
No sense in talking to brick walls. I usually get called a pessimist or conspiracy theorist by most people.

I find it most painful to debate with the so-called Progressives.

They insist history isn't a record of what has and hasn't worked, and get their egos all pumped up on how new and enlightened they are.

Token issues: equality in all forms, greenism by recycling, hatred of traditional culture and religion, etc.

The fundies are annoying, but at least they stand for something. Progressives just want to destroy everything but the ego. Tiresome.

Yeah, the problem is faith is NOT a personal thing. Faith starts wars, faith takes away rights of the "non-believers", faith does a lot of shit to women I won't go into because OMG MAKE ME A SANDWICH.

Don't let anyone tell you faith is personal and private. It's not. Some people keep it to themselves, but they're not the majority.

And yeah Ken, major shock on the Kyle Cooper thing.

Nope. Not takin the bait.

LOL...nope

We are driven by a faith-based society.

Sadly, I think one of the only things that may open up eyes of the majority in this country, is if the alien prescence was disclosed (which is supposedly happening by July 15 thanks to France). Sounds far-fetched and ridiculous, but it would completely change everything.

George Washington pushed for his military chaplains (funded by tax money- pissed people off) among other religious endeavors because he thought faith kept the "simple" in line. He had a point. That makes sense, but it seems to me that it does far more harm than good.

I know more and more atheist and agnostics as I get older, that's comforting at least.

I'm going to figure out a way to resurrect Washington, Jefferson, Adams...

There's a movement to give atheist literature to soldiers abroad. It must be a total nightmare if you're not a theist in the service.

It is, a couple girls I know have atheist men abroad. One is "out", one is not. Pretty sad that you have to decide whether or not to out yourself just because you don't believe in SkySanta.

Darkwor, no need to figure out a way to resurrect those lads. The one you're missing that already figured out a way was Franklin.
Guy was a pure genius.
If this kind of stuff interest you instead of making you bored, read some of the "Fereralist Papers." A collection of essays, statements, diaries, what-have-you, of Jefferson, Franklin, etc. Very bright people. Then you look at Bush. Another bright person.. maybe even smarter than them..

The Federalist Papers? You're not an American if you don't.

And Franklin too of course!

I love the fucking internet

Read those and you'll be blown away at how fucking smart those men were.
No internet, no TV, no mass-media. Just sitting alone in a cabin, reading and writing by candle light, smoking tobacco and drinking warm ale. Ah, the life of a Federalist.

While fundamentalism can be extremely harmful, I would never want to live in a secular society. Beliefs, themselves, are not detrimental; it's dogma that one should always be suspect of. More people need to question the beliefs in their beliefs, and how they benefit from such.

couldnt have said it better

i wish everyone thought like this

I have found this to be true.

I agree.

Also applies to politics.

If only the world were so simple we could embrace "progressive" dogma and think it's anything more than populist religion in a new form.

Well said. That's really beautifully clear. Props to your knowledge and perception.

I worked with a fuckin pro-lifer. Sucked

Yeah, I'm not sure a faith-less world is what I want...nor would it be possible even if I did. I think people are, by nature, inclined to find something to deify. There's no stopping that, which means there's no stopping fundamentalism, which fucking sucks. You can only hope to keep as many people from entering the desperate situation they're often in when they turn to fundamentalism. In my opinion, anyway.

You can however separate religion from law, religion from science, etc. People can pray to skysanta all they want, just so long as it doesn't prevent a girl from getting her birth control filled because some religious retard thinks their going to hell for selling it, ya know?

But what the fuck do I know, I'm just a stupid progressive liberal woman.

Society needs hope in something in order to function. People need to believe their meaning of existence is not empty, but full of reason and purpose. However, I just think somebody just needs to sprinkle a little knowledge and intellect into the majority of people in this country. It really embarrasses me that there are people like this in America:



bennyhillifier

Unless the fundamentalism could be coaxed into being a productive, healthy force.

Sometimes joining them is the only way to beat them. I think Republicans/Christians are looking for this new way now.

No, I don't think it will be liberal/progressive, but then again, that's a trend that is dying rapidly as the excess of the industrial revolution fades.

But a radicalized core of belief could be a powerful force toward some nifty improvements to the world.

Also, many Christians (and Jews, and Hindus, etc) are quite cool in that they're the people building and maintaining community. Yeah, they don't believe in a fairness outside the natural order, but they keep stuff working and do good things for people.

That even warms my cold, black, violent heart!

Not to sound like a cynic, but if they were capable of intellect, they'd have developed it already.

On the other end, most "intellectuals" are effete and unrealistic and know little of practical solutions, preferring instead neurotic judgments "about" reality -- and this is from someone who enjoyed being an intellectual in academia.



Women contribute a lot. The rest is just trends that caught you up like tsunami because they seemed like a better option at the time.

Faith is only destructive when it is used as an excuse to commit crime or to promote bigotry or any other kind of human atrocity. It's not fair to generalize every Christian, especially since not all of them are the same person. It's different in America because there are so many freedoms to express whatever opinion we feel. A lot of people hate Christians because of the actions of few. I don't really wanna get into this debate because it will go on forever.

negro delgrande has a point here. also, the sense of humor tends to not be there so much if the humor material goes in certain directions.

Jon, don't get me started.. One of my coworkers decided that he wanted to tell me that i was lost, and that he could could feel my godlessness. And that he wanted me to find the lord, not because he wanted ME to change mind you.. more that he wanted to feel less THREATENED around me..

He actually said that.

Dude the amount of credibility you lose by labeling everything is staggering. We all know labels are for dumbing down material for conversation and avoiding definitions. If you think this is the case with 'progressives', then don't call me a progressive. In the end it really doesn't matter what someone says, it's what they DO and how their life reflects upon others...and I try to live my life the best my brain will allow.

Oops, I took the bait.

Hahaha! I can feel your godlessness, and it feels terrific.

i would never, ever get into a religious discussion at my job, or even anything philosophical for that matter. i work with morons first of all, but they are also all god-mongers who find any kind of dissent threatening. they are the types to say i am inciting a hostile work environment if i was to simply express my disbelief and malcontent.

I love working for myself. So much.

yeah you did, pam did too in a gymnastic roundabout way really. announcing that you are not taking the bait is like taking the bait without taking the bait and admitting you got nothin in response to counter the claim

Or it is avoiding a pointless argument that will do nothing to change anyone's mindset.

So you say.

But I disagree.

And I disagree it's "labeling." All language is labeling if you extend the definition out far enough.

Observing the psychology and ideals of groups is not labeling; it's science.

And you'll notice that trait unites all progressives. "Fuck history, we'll do it THE MORAL WAY" = secular Christians.

i like this^^

True knowledge of history is the solution to world issues, but the warped interpretations of it will always exist. You say multiculturalism killed major population centers, but that idea only files with right-leaning historians. Personal spiritualism is fine, dogma is dangerous. Everyone is NOT equal - 100% agree - but you cannot convince me it's based on race. Greenism is not recycling. Culture is not religion. And all that.

You say a radicalized core belief group can bring improvements to the world, but what do you think that group is today? Tamil Tigers? KKK? Al Qaeda? It's the Nobel candidates, the free-thinkers and artists, the people who keep core communities together at the family level, riding on infrastructure and economics. And what has ever been the only type of society to ever produce a balance between all, to produce great thinkers, humans worth listening to? I'll tell you, it's not the fundamentalist, 'conservative' societies. It's not hipsters either. I'm totally comfortable with using THAT label. Sometimes I think we debate toward the same thing, but we can't agree on how to get there.

So what is your goal then Conservationist, when you jump on every opportunity to expend your political views? Certainly it's not ego - no, you've already criticized that. I'll tell you what mine is - humans, I really believe our species has the capability to survive indefinitely, give the middle finger to the next mass-extinction, and feed our need to explore the beyond. The earth has produced us, but that doesn't mean we can't outlive it. The best of the best can survive until the universe converges on itself, and hopefully we can leave something behind after that for the next crop of life to find. This idea is in everything I do - it's why I'm a musician, it's why I'm a budding archeologist, so that I can leave a record, something permanent when I rot in the ground, as a record of our species.

Call it romanticized, call me fucking nuts. I'm just not sure with all your ideas, what the hell you're really trying to do except kill us all, mentally or otherwise (liberals dying out after the industrial revolution? where do you get this stuff?).

This lab is done installing Windows. Back to work.

call it pointless argument, but sometimes i do enjoy debates with people who don't resort to name-calling and reciting what they heard on tv. rare thing.

Budding Archeologist? Are you in the field yet and if so, where? Curious to know because I once thought about perusing that but it's very hard to start out doing shit work with no credibility. You REALLY have to go to college for 8 years to be recognized - let along accepted - in that field.

either those people were paid to be stupid, or Americans are much dumber than I thought.........which is scary

nah, it's all real. Leno used to do those sometimes. it really amazes me how clueless some people really are.

exactly...right now all i can do is read books, journals, follow news in the field until i gather the money to go back to school - hopefully a couple years - i have my eyes on umass boston, they have a great program. i have a BS in computer science that i originally got into to program/design games (another field that you need a huge investment of time in that wasn't possible and i wasn't cut out for sitting in front of the computer all day every day), and i'm using my current IT job as a stepping stone because the MTA union will soon give tuition compensation to all state schools (unions are good for something). then i'll being the long, strenuous road to a PhD while i'm working almost full-time. but it will pay off - i'll be able to teach a couple classes, do research, get grant money, travel to rediculous places, go on digs, write write write... and be in a band on the side. nothing intrigues me more. nautical archeology seems awesome. i'll find a UFO wreck or atlantis or something.

I want to do the same thing. Absolutely disgusted with corporate america. would much rather be on the forefront of something exciting rather than sitting in a cube farting all day.

RIGHT...wouldn't you rather sit in a mass grave and fart all day?

Did you hear about the new village they found in southern England that predates stonehenge? I was just reading about it on National Geographic.

the one where he randomly spotted these suspect mounds in the field from a helicopter and figured he should check it out...yeah...awesome. and of course the viking settlement in nunavut... mmm...fuck you columbus.

yeah, they originally thought they were "crop circles."
completely off topic now.. but do you take an interest in OOPArts? Out-of-Place-Artifacts. Some of them are very strange indeed. There's one locally called the "Dorchester Pot"
Here's a brief list:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out-of-place_artifact

What makes you assume that those who are not right-leaning are automatically correct?

Keep in mind that if someone doesn't lean to the right, they probably lean to the left.

Also note that those left-leaning historians have failed to produce a record of stellar successes of diversity. In fact, they cannot produce any.

Let the facts talk, not the ideology. If I'm biased toward the right, you're biased toward the left -- and none of us should accept your bias automatically because it accords with the most popular biases.

After all history shows us that most people are oblivious to the truth until it smacks them in the face, and "just about everybody" is sure the truth is bullshit until that time.

Whatdaya trying to say? hmmmmmm. DICK. ;)

In their defense, you ever have a random stranger stick a camera in your face and start asking you questions? Sometimes an awkward situation makes even the smartest of us say some stupid shit.

woof