Anyone use the push pull technique? Are you using french or match grip? I finally got a more fluid feel for this w/ match grip but, I watched some vids on youtube and seems like everyone's using french grip for speed.

On a un-related note:
I have noticed lately that my left hand, when switching from wrist to fingers I sometimes find myself starting in match and slightly switching to french. I think because my left is trying to keep up to my right hand(?)

I find myself using primarily finger muscles in French Grip for a lot of high tempo stuff. French grip is technically a form of match grip though, not a separate thing. A lot of guys use the Moeller technique to pull off some of the faster stuff which involves a pumping motion and that often works really well, there are videos explaining it all over the place.

I use the push pull with my faster blasts. I use regular match grip. I used to use the french grip, but i got tendinitis from it. You have to be careful with it, you're wrist can take a lot more than you're tendons on the knife side of your hand.... but yeah, i've found that the push pull doesn't really make me go FASTER per-say, it's more that it lets me hit the faster blasts harder. Giving you that extra velocity with the stick.

I use match for pretty much everything. Since grasping the blast beat concept, push-pull came naturally for building up speed and keeping consistent rhythm, the in-and-out movement of the arm is a good tempo marker, made looking at the big picture of the blast rhythm easier...if that makes any sense. It also makes accents a breeze across the whole kit. The right hand does it without thinking, but the left arm is still working on it like always...all technique comes from rudiments and it's the only thing that is getting my left arm to catch up with the rest of my limbs.

ITT: handjob olympiads

practicing up strokes and down strokes in sequence helps me. Down stroke. tap. tap up. full.


www.tigerbill.com this dude always advertises his "tension free" drumming system based off of the moeller motion and the gladstone technique. supposed to eliminate muscle strain tennis elbow carpal tunnel and tendonitis etc from repetative motion. never tried it. plus there is just a ridiculous amount of good stuff on that site.

I can never get the power I need with the initial push stroke for push/pull. I practice it now and then but not too seriously.

Mike, it sounds to me like you're talking about the Moeller technique. I thought what he meant by the push pull is a normal blast that your arm moves towards and away from the drum as your wrist goes up and down to get more volume without the stick having to go as high.

I'm talking about the push / pull where you kind of move your arm towards the drum for the downward stroke and let the stick rebound (and letting your hand open up with your fingers extended), but WITHOUT bringing your arm back up right away during the rebound. You then snap your hand closed creating the 2nd stroke with your fingers only.

You gave me an idea though. There's nothing that says that initial stroke has to be all forearm with no wrist/finger action. As long as you can achieve the right bounce back and make it so the stick and your hand are in the right position for the "pull" stroke. I'm going to try this out.

PS: I first learned about push/pull at a Dave Dicenso clinic. He was fucking tight as hell with this. And fast.

Also.. I've never really experimented with Moeller a whole lot. It just seems a lot like the same technique you'd use to do doubles, which I do all the time. The only benefit I see from moeller is the ability to do tripples in each hand maybe. Thoughts?

i never practice drills like this anymore, tho its probably about time, my right hand on the ride or hats usually is making this sort of motion whilst blasting but i cant seem to replicate it with the left, im not sure if this because of how well (ahem) "trained" my right hand is or if its the bounce characteristics of the cymbal vs snare

my left hand is my "trained" one but i'm telling ya it doesn't translate well to the kit. bounce feedback has something to do with it but expert left hand fapping doesn't equal left hand drum control for me. the fapping hand is better at the caveman technique though.

faping for stick control? this is a practice technique i could get into.

Practice pad?

Cool, if match is working for you, then I am gonna keep practicing the push/pull with match. As much I like the bounce and fingers/hand position with french grip, I am always hesitant to incorporate it on the drum kit because I had tendinitis for 4 years and I am not going back that road again.

Blast on dudes!

yay for French grip, use it all the time

For me the blast is all about the fingers. Get a good fulcrum and develop the strength of those fingers. That's all there is to it. Witness the master:
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/eqTC3-nTZro&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/eqTC3-nTZro&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

(ridiculous angle on that wrist! Jesus)

if letting the fingers do all the work (following up on the initial stroke) is what you mean by the "push-pull" then of course that is the way to go.

Thing is, fingers alone won't cut it on a cymbal or hi-hat since the response is so different. This is what makes the Moeller tech. necessary - so you have to have the fingers carrying out the blast on the snare while getting the arm way more into it on the ride or hat. (What you get if you use the moeller on the snare too is the kind choppy, uneven volume, if note-for-note accurate, blast that Marco Minneman was playing on the Necrophagist tour. He was an AWESOME drummer but it was clear that he hadn't been drilling grind at all [ditto re: his 2-footed blasts], although by now I imagine he could do it in his sleep.)

ach here is the C.W. url
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqTC3-nTZro

Your French Grip is commendable, D, but your Arabian Jilking makes me gasp and swoon.

As far as i know that is the Moeller technique.

i use the push pull technique to fist my own ass

Definitely not moeller. I'll have to show you what I mean next time I see your sexy ass.