Israel is marching towards Gaza right now with a bunch of troops. TIME FOR MORE WAR.
Hamas shoots rockets, Israel sends artillery and troops. Looks like it's going to get ugly.

Will this conflict ever end?

one of the leaders of Hamas referred to it as "open war" yesterday. and for what? RELIGION.

But Israel is on our side!

This will never end. Fuck the jews, fuck the arabs, let them all kill each other.

Muslims against Christians
and the Arabs versus Jews
the fighting won't stop!
no one wins, we all lose

Us being involved will not improve anything.

Oh hey there WW3. I knew you were lurking around here somewhere.

I'm much more on the arabs of the area's side then the fucking entitled nazi/jews of Israel. The fact we support either of them is pathetic.

Two days ago, Israel suddenly assassinates Hamas leader after a relatively long period of calm.

Yesterday, Hamas retalliates with rockets into Israel.

Now, the Israeli leader is calling for an expanding conflict with 30K ground troops to retalliate against the rockets.

I guess Mad Bomber Netanyahu was planning on provoking this all with the assassination as soon as the election was over.



Fortunately, not all national mainstream press here seems to be playing along in burying the lead of the initial assassination which started this latest flurry of war, the AP posted a good article on this. Maybe the fact that the public has voted against the neoconservative pre-emptive war philosophy in two electoral college landslides has finally deadened the media appeal of being apologists for that kind of philosophy, even when coming from the Israeli far right, which has in the past been seldom challenged by the mainstream press with evenhanded reporting.

If most of the public here that is aware of the news on this topic has the right information, that might actually give the Obama administration enough support on this issue to follow through with their threats to sanction Israel if it keeps pulling this shit. We don't need to be funding their military conquests.

What's the difference between pizzas and Jews? Pizzas don't scream in the oven.

Even if you take the view that all jokes are fair game, you probably don't realize that aside from that, you just undermined everything I just said with that one line; it's like making beheading jokes about the French Revolution while Napoleon was still conquering Europe, or making jokes about German suffering in the 20's two decades later. The key argument used by oppressors is pointing out the time in history when they were oppressed, and playing into their narrative even with jokes just enables more oppression. Netanyahu would copy and paste your post a million times if he could, saying "this is what we're up against". Derp.

agreed. and i doubt obama will sanction israel. if anything the UN will, but obama follows the same tune as most of the rest of the western govt's attitudes toward israel.

Well I could agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong.

It's less likely than more that Israel will ultimately be sanctioned by the US, but the escalating and very real of threat of doing so if they don't back off should at least continue to be used to stop them from going overboard, just as it had for the last three years. Sanctions against Israel is something the American government never threatened before this administration and I do think it counts as a significant shift even just as a negotiating tactic; it just needs to be repeated again often and firmly to the Israelis in the wake of this latest attempt to start a war. In the end, Israel will probably back off to not risk it, because they badly need us economically, which is why I agree it's less likely sanctions would actually happen in the end. But the use of that tool is crucial.

The coverage on www.aljazeera.com is really good.

The IDF posted a.youtube video of the assassination on their twitter. Social media is getting nuts.

This...

Postby MurderGram » November 15th, 2012, 5:16 pm
Watchin the news at the crib.. CNN While smoken a blunt

Isreal is basically at war with palestine

these niggas is droppin bombs, shootin rockets, doin arial strikes on each otha left n right

they had sum black girl reporter on the front lines and a jet flew rite ova her and dropped a bomb on a crib

the power to the camera went out n shit lol this shits wild nigga

y'all think we finna get involved?

bennyhillifier

^Politics aside, that was way fucking cool.

Was that an air strike? I tried to frame by frame it, but couldn't really tell

LOL.

I couldn't see any missile/bomb either, though it seems like a guided air attack would be most likely.

hm... you would figure you could see the american flag on them.

Scott Wily!! Its over once and 4ALL!! DEC.21! Lol! http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/zirconsongs

Because of the vantage point of the video, it is safe to say that it was an aerial attack. Not to mention they haven't really used ground attacks yet.
Haven't you guys ever seen the aerial attack videos from Iraq and Afghanistan?
The only other thing would be a bomb placed in the car. But whats the point of taping it from above when you can just attack from above?

Wily! Your a loooooooser!

Fuck, it's even worse than we thought:

Jabari held draft of truce agreement when assassinated - Jews For Justice For Palestinians

FWIW

Rockets Fired from Egypt Hit Israel Village

To verify that he in fact doesn't exit the car. Basically, to verify his death so that it can be reported, taken credit for, and hopefully used by psyops to avert any further dissention with Hamas because their future leaders will fear for their own lives as well as the lives of their families. War is as much a head game as astrophysics. If you strike fear into the hearts of their leaders, they'll call off the dogs and seek diplomacy. Nothing like a little airstrike to have Hamas scratching their heads and wondering if its really all worth it. It will also send the true terrorists underground. You'll start seeing more car bombings and subversive hits in Jerusalem from now on.

We need to turn the entire middle east into one big glass parking lot surrounding a huge 24-hour super Wal-Mart that's complete with a carnival and a petting zoo for the youngsters.

It does look like a bomb in the car BTW. An airstirke would have blown the car to smithereens and there would have been no fire. A munitions dump from the sky typically looks like the target just "pops" into a million pieces. In this case you can clearly see the hood pop off and fire engulf the vehicle...more typical of an incendiary device of some sort...and very precise...to the point of my belief that it was in fact a bomb planted on the vehicle and possibly detonated via radio transmission from the sky, or from some jamoke standing nearby with a cell phone. If it was det'd from the sky...well then there's your answer as to why they filmed it. Because they had to be close enough to transmit and also film him NEVER stepping out of the car again.

Hope the asshole enjoys his 72 virgins.

Wait, that's not what your deployments were like?

^^ hahah.

But yea, I think you may be onto something Hoser. Looks like it may have been planted. It was obviously planned, though, as evident by the tape.

http://thenextweb.com/insider/2012/11/17/a...passwords&utm_campaign=social+media

When the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) this week began taking military action in the Gaza strip against Hamas (as the IDF announced on Twitter), Anonymous declared its own war as part of #OpIsrael. Among the casualties are thousands of email addresses and passwords, hundreds of Israeli Web sites, government-owned as well as privately owned pages, as well as databases belonging to Bank Jerusalem and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

Nice picture and I agree with the basis of it, but the dead babies? The muslims have been killing babies far longer than anyone else.

The Spartans killed babies before that.

Obama seeks to head off Israeli ground invasion in Gaza

BANGKOK – President Obama made his first remarks Sunday on the escalating violence in Gaza and Israel, firmly backing Israel's right to defend itself militarily against rocket attacks from the Hamas-controlled Palestinian area, but also making clear that he's eager to avert a potential ground incursion into Gaza by Israeli troops.

"There's no country on Earth that would tolerate missiles raining down on its citizens from outside its borders," he said at a press conference here with the Thai prime minister. "We are fully supportive of Israel's right to defend itself."

That aspect of Obama's comments was consistent with the line his aides and spokespeople have been putting out since the violence escalated last week. However, in response to a question about a possible move into Gaza by Israeli troops, the president made clear for the first time that the White House has a grim view of the outcome of Israeli troops entering Gaza."

http://www.politico.com/politico44/2012/11...-israels-right-to-149845.html?hp=f3


I'd really like him to be even tougher on the Israelis than this (publicly speaking against the assassination, not just the rocket fire and potential ground invasion as he has already done) - but this statement definitely beats the rap of that picture up there. Presidents historically have ALWAYS only dissuaded Israel from escalating against Palestinians privately (if at all), so to do so publicly is a pretty unprecedented step, even if balanced out by usual bullshit boilerplate rhetoric to provide cover for it.

The real test now is whether this and behind the scenes pressure from the administration actually stops Israel from invading (odds are it will) - and if it doesn't stop them, what Obama does and says to respond to that.

Muslims have had less time killing babies than the other monotheistic faiths (Christianity/Judaism) because those religions have been around longer and got an earlier head start. The message: start your cult of delusion early if you want the high score.

BAHAHAHA that's awesome.

that is so precious.

What is the point of this? Either surrender or keep fighting; what is this guy trying to prove? That the Israelis are totally meany pantses to the Palestinians?

Gawd ziller lives way over there in Jay-pan and thats a long ass commute for a beatdown

That when a rocket goes into Israel, it's a bodybuilder being attacked by a midget, not a piranha biting the throat of a baby deer, so when Americans hear "rocket fire from Hamas", the bully can't spin itself as the pity case.

What does any of that even mean? A pity case? Who cares. The point is that Palestine shouldn't cry every-time Israel retaliates against one of their attacks. Give me a break. It's big boy rules; it's combat. If you shoot a rocket at the enemy, expect retaliation. If you are hiding amongst civilians; expect some civilians to die when you are attacked.

This sign-holder should be doing something productive. He could learn a thing or two from Finland; all of Palestine could.

Sure, petition various nations for help and state your cause. Do not do it in a whiny way or rely on it solely, though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War



>Shoot un-guided random rocket at a densely populated area of Israel.
>Hide amongst civilians.
>Precision attack by Israel on your position.
>The civilians you have surrounded yourself with die along with you.
>"OMG EVIL ISRAEL KILLING BABIES!"

Hamas logic.


Now mind you I'm not saying Israel is super-duper or anything; this is all in response to that sign. IE: "I shoot a ROCKET at you and I'm to blame, waaah boohoo".



Also it is absolutely mind boggling that people can't understand that if Hamas had the capabilities of Israel; Israel and all the civilians there-in would be wiped off the face of the earth.

Liberals/The Left Wing/Whatever you want to call them will not believe that we are at war/have an enemy until someone is in their bedroom slitting their throat with a Shamshir.

Ashkenazi power!

Seriously, how long would you take rockets into your city before you attacked whoever was doing it? Honest question.

You'd have to fight back.

The big question, though: who WANTS Israel there? None of the neighboring countries do. It was such an unstable idea to begin with, and now our generation has to deal with the consequences. I don't think they'll ever have peace.

There's a lot of things around the world that people don't 'want'. In this case, they have had more than their fair share of battles over that land so I would venture to say it has been won by Israel (even if it was 'given' at the beginning).


Also, do you really think that if Israel wasn't there, that area of the world would somehow be MORE peaceful?

No, but I don't think having Israel's current government is good. In their defense, they always have to be on edge, given the relationship with their neighbors.
It's funny how that area of the world has never been fully stable and how 3 Abrahmic religions squabble over little things. The oppression is unquestionable, but the Palestinians are also mornic for attacking. In some ways though, I can see why they hate Israel so much. If I were a youthful Palestinian who has seen my people oppressed, I would probably fight back too. If I was a youthful Jewish chap living in Jerusalem who wants to live in peace but end up seeing rockets coming down, I'd also be pissed off.
I dont think there's any common ground for peace, and Israel's government has the weaponry and technology to destroy many of their neighbors. If Iran and Syria start actively jumping in more, this will get pretty damn ugly.

hamas is not palestine. a two-state solution won't stop muslim infighting or muslims vs. jews. either way, they have to realize that a conflict now without stabilized neighboring governments would be a refugee, humanitarian, and economic nightmare for the entire region beyond the west bank. it's the only reason to cool it and allow peace talks to continue for the indefinite future.

the bottom line is israel can't start a war with the approval of the west or it isolates itself, which it simply can't do.

this also happened during the gulf war, if you can replace iraq with hamas (it's tough for me to say how the situation is much different):

Iraq hoped to provoke a military response from Israel. The Iraqi government hoped that many Arab states would withdraw from the coalition, as they would be reluctant to fight alongside Israel.[56] Following the first attacks, Israeli Air Force jets were deployed to patrol the northern airspace with Iraq. Israel prepared to militarily retaliate, as its policy for the previous forty years had always been retaliation. However, President Bush pressured Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir not to retaliate and withdraw Israeli jets, fearing that if Israel attacked Iraq, the other Arab nations would either desert from the coalition or join Iraq.

i guess my point is they need to wait and see what the governments in syria and iran will look like in the near future before israel makes a move it can't backtrack on.

Indeed.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/ZER403A.html

Thoughts?

oh yeah. taken from the CIA playbook in the "Making Sure You Always Have Enemies to Fight" chapter.

where's Ben Affleck and Morgan Freeman when you need them?

I just can't believe all these arm-chair do-goods are trying to stop two tribes from settling things the proper way. Life-worshippers. Chains are worse than bayonets (and that applies to both sides).

the jew tribe has rights to it then. if only it was as simple as tribal. one tribe has newks.

ITT:

bennyhillifier

Apparently they've reached a truce to take place at 5:00 PM today.

aka: kill as many people as you can by 5

Apparently I posted that pretty preemptively.

"Minutes after a Hamas official told Reuters that Palestinians and Israeli had agreed to an Egyptian-brokered cease-fire, a spokesman Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said that no agreement had been reached yet. Mark Regev, the Israeli spokesman, told CNN that the negotiations are still going on.

An Israeli source told Hala Gorani of CNN that Israel is insisting on 24 hours of “calm” before agreeing to a deal.

Emilie Baujard, a Radio France correspondent in Gaza, reports on Twitter that a Hamas official is due to speak on local television in just over an hour about the negotiations."

lol, propaganda

Painting themselves as the victim while being the bigger dog in the fight, even when they start the conflict like they did this time, is how they have maintained as much unconditional support among the public here for as long as they have, even though that support is slowly slipping over time.

Thing is, it hasn't slipped enough yet to become a minority opinion. Among younger voters it has, among voters who read various news sources online it has, among voters who always opposed the Iraq War on the libertarian right and progressive/center left it has, but you look at the overall numbers and the sympathies are still illogically lopsided against Israel compared to the events, even though it's strongest among a diminishing group of older white Republican voters who aren't exactly the cutting edge of where this country is going in terms of demographics. Still that aside, it's still a majority of Americans who sympathize with Israel even when given the option of sympathizing with both or neither group: http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/...aeli-attacks-in-gaza-are-justified/

Part of that misconception is shit coverage - like when I said before the AP did a good job in one article highlighting that an Israeli killing of a Palestinian leader started the latest round of fighting, I spoke too soon in saying that was a trend; all the televised coverage and articles since then fail to acknowledge the chronology of events (even that CNN article I just linked), so people think the Palestinians started with the rockets without provocation and then were retaliated against. Of course Israel is the sympathetic one in that case, and the Palestinians look batshit crazy - too bad it's not what actually happened.

And so you have the sign, to try and break those misconceptions of sympathy in a few words.




I think that's an oversimplification. There are fighters on both sides who fight, and civilians on both sides (way more of them than there are fighters) who always cry when attacked, and deservedly so, because whether it's a Palestinian rocket or a Israeli bomb coming at you from the sky - you're a civilian about to die who can't do shit to put up a fight against the armament about to blow your face to shreds in a second and a half, or living under that fear.

In the case of Palestine in particular, the oversimplification of lumping in everyone together as crybabies is especially problematic because they don't actually have a sovereign country; in the case of Israel, you can at least argue those civilians had a right to vote and petition their government to use its sovereign powers and resources in a more peaceful way, but if your a Palestinian, all you can do is vote for a powerless government that will be assassinated - you're pretty much fucked on that front.

This article explains it perfectly in the best first-person account I've read about this:

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/news...-bombing-in-gaza-city.html#comments





True.

Speaking of which, 3 dead Israelis and 100 dead Palestinians over the week.

I'd suggest that's a matter of armaments, not a lack of fighting spirit.




True... but again, Finland has a country. From your own link:

"Hostilities ceased in March 1940 with the signing of the Moscow Peace Treaty. Finland ceded 11% of its pre-war territory and 30% of its economic assets to the Soviet Union.[31] Soviet losses were heavy, and the country's international reputation suffered.[32] Soviet forces did not accomplish their objective of the total conquest of Finland,[33][need quotation to verify] but did gain substantial territory along Lake Ladoga, providing a buffer for Leningrad, and territory in Northern Finland. The Finns, however, retained their sovereignty and enhanced their international reputation."


That last sentence is key, which is why it's the conclusion sentence to the paragraph.

You can't rally around the key goal of retaining sovereignty if you don't have it in the first place.

The story with Israel/Palestine right now begins where the Finland story would have ended in defeat that they never experienced; with the enemy ALREADY occupying all their land.

This is an important point though because it raises one of the problems of expecting any total peace in that area before the Palestinians have their own sovereign country; without a recognized government or resources, it's impossible for the Palestinians leadership to guarantee security for anyone, because they don't have the power to enforce anything among their own populace.





If they got them instantaneously going from no weapons to nukes overnight, yeah, maybe as a last resort they would - but no one goes from zero to sixty overnight when it comes to weaponry. Had Palestinians been closer to parity with Israel in arms over all the years, there wouldn't have been the desperation and resentment to create such a sentiment. The only people to use a nuclear bomb in the history of the world aren't Arabs, FWIW.



That argument is outdated by the facts; the left in America is why we killed Bin Laden and most senior Al Qaeda instead of dicking around invading countries and creating more terrorists than we can kill according to our intelligence estimates under the previous admin. It's a no contest who has been more successful killing our enemies and who has been better at just getting our guys killed when it comes to the two sides of the political spectrum over the last ten years.

Let's see, one is a snivelling cowardly rat training her offspring to be a snivelling cowardly rat, the other is a murderous cowardly rat training her offspring to be a murderous cowardly rat. Let them all kill each other, what on earth makes more sense?

Pretty much everything else in this thread:

So what is the point of that chart? That Israel has a stronger military?

hmm wonder why they would need such a strong military?

Because they live in the worst neighbourhood in the world where literally everyone wants to wipe them off the face of the earth?

Okay NOW they've agreed to a cease fire.

Yup, very good news:

"The accord says that 'Israel shall stop all hostilities on the Gaza Strip, land, sea and air, including incursions and targeting of individuals,' Egypt’s state-run Ahram Gate reported. It also says that 'all Palestinian factions shall stop all hostilities from the Gaza Strip against Israel, including rocket attacks and attacks along the border.' "

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-11-21/i...arting-today-after-egypt-talks.html

The longer both sides can hold this cease-fire, the better; it's in the best interest of both Israel and the Palestinians to make a long-term two state solution peace treaty during this administration. The slow trickle of Israel into further isolation and the fact that Palestinians will end up with a less sympathetic US President in four years no matter which party wins next time are reasons for both to deal now before their hand gets weaker, letting the resolution of this immediate crisis become a larger opportunity,

I posted the pic as flamebait, this line sums up my stance.

I would agree with both of you 100% if we weren't arming one side and it wasn't this point in history.

Otherwise, my general philosophy in the past has been a similar fuck 'em all outlook; all the extremists are the problem, let them kill each other because each of the religions has its fundies fucking up life for the rest of society, that's what I've said before now including in this forum - but at this moment in history when the US is pulling out of invaded countries and voting neocons out of office in electoral landslides as a repudiation of wars and occupation we can't afford, there's something really fucked about immediately turning around to authorize and pay for wars and occupations by neocons in other countries.

Glad that didn't happen, and we stepped in and put a stop to the bullshit, at least for now.